A couple weeks ago, I shared my thoughts on why I think dumpster diving for coupons is not a good idea.
So you can imagine my interest when my contact from The News Tribune sent me this article on coupon security. (Interestingly enough, when I inquired at the Coupon Information Corporation on this topic, they sent me the same link.) It’s an interview of Ronald Cole from News America (AKA SmartSource). Then, the same set of questions were posed to Barry Haselden from Valassis (AKA Red Plum). I wanted to share an excerpt of these interviews with you today, because I don’t see this kind of information often discussed in the couponing world.
For the questions below, RC is Ronald Cole and ABC is the Audit Bureau of Circulations:
ABC: Why does it matter if someone steals coupon inserts from a recycle bin? Aren’t they being thrown out anyway?
RC: Security guidelines require newspapers to be accountable for the destruction of returns and leftovers. Unauthorized distribution or obtaining coupons in bulk is a serious violation of the security policy. Coupons that are obtained illegally drive up redemption costs for the manufacturers. This could ultimately lead to the manufacturers ceasing distribution of coupons. Then everybody loses.
And here’s Barry Haselden’s response to the same question:
ABC: Why does it matter if someone steals coupon inserts from a recycle bin? Aren’t they being thrown out anyway?
BH: Yes it does matter. First, stealing in any form is illegal. Additionally, there is a specific process for the destruction of coupon inserts by the newspapers, which includes overall accountability of overage and returns. Excess coupons that are distributed via unauthorized channels — for example, stealing them from a recycling bin — could add significant costs to the manufacturer’s redemption budget for the coupon promotion. This may result in the manufacturer offering fewer coupons in the future due to cost overruns related to unauthorized coupon distribution.
And then check out this:
ABC: How should inserts be properly disposed?
RC: As required by our strict security policy, newspapers must account for all unused coupons and destroy them. Every newspaper is required to provide documentation of how many copies were destroyed and method of destruction for each and every insertion date.
In his interview, Mr. Cole also discusses the impact of Extreme Couponing. He says that while he thinks the promotion of coupons is a good thing, News America (again, SmartSource), cannot condone the illegal practices depicted on the show. I did find it encouraging that he said that coupon security remains high.
One thing that suprised me on my dumpster diving post is how few people commented about the impact to manufacturers and newspapers. I’m not sure why it is, but people would rather discuss the “ick” impact over the “this could hurt manufacturers and couponers everywhere” impact. Mr. Cole seems to make it pretty clear when that “manufacturers could eliminate coupons or raise prices to cover the cost” if coupons are mishandled. Incidentally, see why buying or selling coupon inserts may also pose a problem?
I would encourage you to read both full interviews: Robert Cole Interview and Barry Haselden Interview.
Do you think couponers should take the time to learn more about these kind of topics? Do you think couponers are somehow entitled to have the discarded coupons? What else did you find interesting about the interviews?
{ 51 comments… read them below or add one }
I don’t really understand how obtaining/using coupons is more and more being viewed as right, and not as an incentive from the manufacturer to choose their products. We are not entitled to anything, and if we are going to redeem the coupons that the manufacturers are offering, then I believe we have the responsibility to make sure we are using them (or obtaining them) in the manner they were intended. I’m glad there’s some buzz being generated out there, because I can totally see how unauthorized distribution could cause the manufacturers to either stop offering coupons, or decreasing the value to the point that it wouldn’t be worth clipping. Yikes, and thanks for sharing those articles!
Thank you so much Janette!
The Dumpster Diving article series is fantastic! I’ve directed many people here to read it. ESPECIALLY the ones who dumpster dive for coupons. One of the many reasons that I love this site is your coupon ethics! I’ve always had the view that coupons are no different than having money in your hand. You wouldn’t photocopy your money, you wouldn’t write a bad check, etc. Coupons are essentially “free money” that manufacturers are graciously putting out there for us. Many households rely on coupons to help make ends meet. The more people take advantage of it, the less those who really need it will have available. I hope that people will educate themselves about coupon rules, regulations AND the ethics that go along with it. Thank you for doing it honestly and setting such a great example for all of us!
Thanks, Theresa! I know I’m putting myself out there a bit in tackling these topics, but the more I learn, the more I feel compelled to say something. If there’s anything I can do to help keep the coupons coming? I want to be a part of that!
That’s a really excellent point Theresa, coupons are just like having cash in your hand. The manufacturer generously puts them out there for us to use and save money, but they are not required to. I too can’t figure out where this sense of entitlement came from. It’s apparently “couponers vs manufacturers” and the couponer that can score the biggest deal is the winner, manufacturer be d**ned.
I just want to feed my family and save a little money while doing it. I did use to enjoy the thrill of the deal, but not at anyone’s expense, store, manufacturer or otherwise.
I have always felt like dumpster diving was just not right for me personally, and now I know why. Plus, it does seem quite “icky”.
Putting yourself out there is admirable to say the least! If there weren’t people like you willing to stick your neck out and stand up for what you believe in then this fantastic resource would be gone! There is a group of us that have started a local “coupon club” of sorts, and one of the absolute biggest topics that we teach is the ethical use of coupons. It’s amazing how many people don’t stop and think about the ways in which they obtain their coupons. Though it’s drastic, we liken it to robbing a bank. Coupons are money! They don’t realize that unused coupons aren’t just thrown out, they are actually accounted for. Blogs like yours that bring this topic to life keep me from feeling like I’m stuffing my opinion on ethical use down their throats. They can actually see the legal side of things!! So again, I thank you for taking a stand! There are many of us by your side!!
Your comment? Seriously touched me today. Truly did.
Best wishes to you Theresa, with your coupon group! Love what you’re doing!
Thank you!!
I think they were generally referring to dumpster diving at Newspapers… which is wrong… however, if you get permission from the owner of said “dumpster” what’s wrong with that? The newspapers couldn’t possibly have to account for every unsold paper, or they wouldn’t be getting tossed!
They don’t have to account for every unsold paper….but they do for the inserts in those papers. Which is why taking them out of a dumpster (with permission or without) is wrong.
Here’s a question though. If the newspaper delivers a paper to someone who doesn’t use those coupons and they throw them away, are those considered “accounted for”, since they were in fact delivered? I would assume these are what end up in the recycling bin, not necessarily tons of extra inserts left over from the actual newspaper office.
I’ve never gotten any inserts from the recycling bin, so I could be totally off base!
Exactly! After they are delivered, they are accounted for. So what if my 6 neighbors don’t coupon, and have given me permission to dig through their recycle bin for the coupons?
Or what if it’s my Grandma? What if she saves her inserts for me? I didn’t buy that paper, but she did… so did my neighbors… As long as I have permission from them, I’m not stealing them… They have given them to me.
It’s just like if someone was to give something away on Craigslist or FreeCycle, I go to their house, I pick it up, even if they aren’t handing it to me, I’m not stealing, because they agreed to give it to me and set it out for me at the agreed upon time!
So, where is the line drawn?
This is an absolutely GREAT point of consideration and one that fascinates me! Where IS that line? And honestly – what accountability do the papers have in all of this?
What do you think: where’s the line?
It truly does fascinate me as well… I’m not a dumpster diver, I’m an ethical couponer (I’ve returned items if I found out I accidentally used the coupon in the wrong way), I don’t clear shelves, yes, I grumbled when Albies changed their doublers from 3 to 2, but I only grumbled to myself, and reminded myself that I could live somewhere they don’t offer them… or they offer 1, that’s mailed to your house. And there is ZERO way to get extras.
All in all, I am SO VERY grateful for coupons. They have allowed me to be a stay at home mom, they have relieved SO MUCH financial pressure (I took our monthly food budget from $600 to $200, and have been able to include diapers and formula in that $200)…
BUT, here’s the deal… If I have permission from someone to have something of theirs that is valuable to me, but not valuable to them, how is that different from the Free Box at a garage sale?
I think a BIG key to this is permission! Have you asked for and received permission from the owner of whatever dumpster/recycle bin you are getting them from? Yes? Well then have at it! If you have not, you are STEALING! Just like taking something out of a persons trash can without permission is stealing, so is dumpster diving without permission.
Hotels are a GREAT example… They purchase so many Sunday papers every week as a “Perk” for the guests staying in the hotel. The hotels get a discount, and the newspaper get extra subscribers… However, If the hotel guests don’t want them, are they supposed to return their unwanted property to the place they paid for it? They won’t get a refund. They will probably get told to get lost. What would you do with something no one wanted? I’d throw it away! And then if someone came and asked me if they could have it? Sure! You just have to go get it out of the trash can/recycle bin…
Melody, I see your point. However, as Becky stated….the issue remains if you were given them. If my grandma gave me her inserts, heck yeah I’d use them. Because they were given to me.
But I wouldn’t go digging through my granny’s recycling bin, ya know?
If someone has to sneak around to do something…it’s probably something they shouldn’t be doing.
@ Heather – good comment about “if someone has to sneak around to do something, it’s probably something they shouldn’t do.”
Here’s where I think “dumping diving” is ok:
If the newspapers were delivered to your apt complex, let’s say, and you have a general area to put your recycling, I don’t see the harm in taking the inserts or any other newspaper articles.
Here’s an example of not ok:
Now, if you are donning dark clothing and sneaking into recycle bins at various newspaper companies at 3am while hubby stands guard, that’s a problem.
Either way you are not stealing, but rather in the latter example you are being someplace you shouldn’t….as BecauseMoreiSMore said, you are having to be sneaky.
I’ve worked for newspapers… if they had to account for them in the “distributed” papers, (aka, the ones on the newstand) they would have to go around and pick them up.
They can’t and won’t sign something saying they destroyed them in a specific manner if they in fact did not. It would be a huge liability. They could get sued, etc.
They ones they are referring to are the ones they are given by RP/SS/PG that are NOT put into newspapers… like they were sent 100,000 copies of the insert, but only printed 90,000 papers. They ABSOLUTLY have to account for the 10,000 they didn’t insert.
I appreciate your insight here, Becky. So in this instance, the 10,000 they didn’t insert would have to be destroyed then? Was that your experience?
Yep!! Usually by this HUGE shredder. Those are the ones that have to be destroyed, the ones not inserted…
At least, when I worked at the newspapers (both of the ones here in Southern Idaho), that was the case. Maybe it’s changed
@ Becky,
The problem is when folks have a connection with the newspaper companies and the companies are not shredding them. Example – remember that one lady on EC from Florida who said her coupons “came from God?” I highly doubt she has 1,000 friends each week who bless her with inserts. I’m more inclined to think she has a hook-up with a newspaper.
Wow, I have just started following your blog, which I love btw, and I LOVE this post! So many people say, “well they showed it on tv so it must be okay”. Really people? Sometimes grown ups forget that not EVERY part of something that is seen on tv is real even if it is a “reality show”. Thank you for the informed post, and taking the time to get the information from the source (no pun intended “smart source” ar ar)! Keep up the posts on these important topics PLEASE!!!
Will do! And honestly, Kira? I’m still learning and uncovering this information myself. I am probably not done with this topic yet.
I’m also deeply interested in how couponers fit into the “bigger picture” of how coupons work. I think it can be too easy for us to just think of how coupons impact us (e.g., the savings) without taking into account all the other parties involves (stores, newspapers, manufacturers).
One thing I think we ALL need to remember here…..Extreme couponing is reality TV, and in watching all the reality shows, NONE of them are close to the reality that I live in each and every day. We all need to be accountable for our actions, and living with rules are part of our lives. If WE enjoy using coupons, then we need to use them properly. I for one will miss them if companies choose to opt out of production of their coupons. I have worked retail management for many many years, and recently I am seeing many coupons printed from the web that are counterfeit. If people abuse and alter coupons they are getting online, soon retailers won’t be accepting those as well. Angela, I love your site. I am new to following the blogs, I actually heard about them through my corporate office, and started reading a few to see what items were going to HOT that week. In reading many blogs, I see that a few of the site owners do NOT follow good coupons ethics. On that note…..thank you for doing a great job, and keeping within the boundries we are given.
I’ve enjoyed reading everyone’s insights here, and this comment struck me particularly well. I just recently started couponing after watching the show, but never imagined doing what those couponers have done. I figured the most I would ever buy of one item is 6, so I purchase 6 newspapers a week. I get mine at the Dollar Tree, so they’re half price, but I pay for them. My mom sometimes gives me hers, but I could never imagine going into a public dumpster and dig for newspapers. And really – who in their life would imagine needing 500 tubes of toothpaste anyway? I think as Robin stated, this is “reality” tv, not reality, and if we all use the coupons properly and fairly, the manufacturers will continue to give us this extra discount and we can all continue to benefit from their generosity.
Love a chick with guts! Your dedication to your blog and getting answers to these types of things are just why I am a follower and have sent others on my journey as well. What ever happened to being ethical, honest and trustworthy? Seems that like is going out of style…such a shame really…(I worry what we are teaching out children in this world!) Thank you for the post…will continue to folllow!
Oh thank you, Heather! The longer I’m at this, the gutsier I find myself.
I also have learned that debate, when done respectfully, can challenge us in our thinking. I sincerely appreciate everyone who has added thoughtful comments here – whether or not they agree with me.
I never knew that coupon inserts had to be accounted for but it makes sense. Never dumpster dive either. But I do clean out the recycling bin at the condo since a) no one else wants to do it and b) I can pull out whatever inserts are there, since people have made the choice to recycle their inserts because they don’t want the coupons. Is this wrong? I never thought it was at all. It works out to about 5-10 extra RP’s a week on the weeks when I’m not too lazy to go over there. I have never given any thought to the fact that it might be wrong. But if it is I will certainly not do it anymore.
In my opinion, I don’t think there is anything wrong with this. I do agree with those that have said that I believe the 2 gentlemen are referring to the mass of left over inserts at the newspaper, not the inserts that individuals are throwing away with their newspaper.
What about at coffee shops or airports or where ever, that people have bought the papers and left them behind for the next person? I think if you had asked the initial “owner” of the paper, they would have given you the insert…but instead they just left it behind for the next person to read.
If I see a paper sitting on a table at a coffe shop and there was a funny comic strip in the comics section and I took it home, am I stealing that section of the paper? I think it comes down to whether you are trespassing to obtain the insert. And I believe that in some states, I don’t know about WA, once the recycling is placed on the curb it is no longer property of the owner, but considered abandonded trash. Thanks so much for bringing up this topic, it has been really interesting to read and am thankful that you follow the rules and make us think about what is ethical and what is not. And by the way, I do not dumpster dive, but if I see a random insert laying around, I will take it…
I didn’t read the full article but these answers by BH and RC are interesting because they place ACCOUNTABILITY on the newspapers to dispose of the extra inserts properly. However, it is apparent that they are not doing that. Now you are saying that the couponer is doing something wrong, but I think it is the newspapers that are not taking care of their end of the deal with the coupon companies.
I think I made a comment earlier here that the newspapers absolutely play a part in all of this!!
I don’t think dumpster diving for coupons is legally wrong; it’s not like you could call the police and have someone arrested for taking inserts out of the trash. I think legally once it is thrown into a city dumpster it is considered public property. For example, police can search your dumpster for evidence without obtaining a warrent. I think the only illegal thing about it is whether or not you trespass to get to the dumpster.
Now morally I think it is a different story. If you want the inserts why not just go knock on the door and ask the people to save them for you?
Jessica, if you read my earlier post, you’ll see I pretty much said the same thing – it’s not illegal. I did find it interesting that Mr. Cole used the word “illegal” in his interview though.
A couple weeks ago, I stopped by the dollar store and there was a gal going through the Sunday papers. She said none of them had the inserts in them. I looked through one at Safeway and one at Walmart just out of curiosity and found the same thing-no inserts.
I don’t think they were stolen-I think the TNT must just be giving priority on the inserts to subscribers.
If that’s the case, then the dumpster diving issue may be a moot one soon!
Sometimes, the inserts have been stolen, but I’ve heard of some stores taking the inserts and putting them behind the counter, so you have to ask for them when you buy the paper. Why did they do this? Because people were stealing the inserts, of course! Ugh! I thought it was a very sensible plan for the stores to come up with as long as people remember to get the coupons inserts.
@ DeAnn,
Extreme Couponing has really created some monsters out there. I don’t find couponing at all fun anymore. I bargain shop and deal hunt still, but my days of stockpiling have been ruined by this show. For instance, instead of being allowed to do 3 double coupon sets per visit to Albertsons – that is, use 9 Doubles total, we are now only allowed to use 2 Doubles per trip.
I stopped shopping at Albertsons at all and give my business to WinCo. You don’t have to deal with store cycles or ads for what’s on sale. Everything is low, low, low everyday. Sure I may pay $20 more for my trip to Winco vs if I couponed at Abertsons, but to me the $20 is worth more (time AND gas) than the zillion trips to Albertsons would take using only 2 Doubles per trip.
Thanks, Extreme Couponing, you have ruined couponing!!!!!!!!!!
One of the reasons I’ve started highlighting WinCo more is precisely because they don’t do the crazy loss leaders and promotions that some of their competitors do. Because of that, they may be more readiy able to weather the impact of shows like Extreme Couponing. They are worth paying attention to, and taking the time to learn to shop at!
First of all, thank you for stressing the ethics of couponing! It is hard to take a stand especially one that might be unpopular and I commend you. Now a couple of thoughts, where is the stores liability in all of this? Why not impose a limit on # of items purchased off the shelf? Why allow a show like Extreme Couponing come in and film a transaction that violates store policy and coupon limits? I would much rather see limits imposed by the stores and the manufactors than see coupon value diminished. It would solve the issue of clear shelves too! As for which papers have to be accounted for, I have to talked to several small business owners who offer a daily paper for purchase and they have to return any unsold papers. All of those unsold papers have to be accounted for as well as the undistributed ones. Anyways thanks again for writing this series and holding all couponers to a high standard!
There was a discussion ( if you can call it that ) on another persons website similar to this. This couponer posted a pic of her finds that day and what coupons she used to get the deals. She had used a coupon that was to come out in that Sundays paper & she was questioned on it. She said that she received the “extra” inserts early from someone she knows. My question to her was, how could they possibly be “extra’s” if it was Wednesday and she had the inserts and the paper that they were to be put in hadn’t even been distributed yet. She said that she as a blogger gets them early to post deals ahead of time….that’s fine, but why should she have 20 (just an example…i don’t know how many she really got) inserts, before I can get one? No wonder there isn’t anything left when I get to the stores between this and shelf clearing us average couponers don’t stand a chance! I was flamed pretty hard for my asking about these inserts, being told I was just jealous that she was a “better” couponer than me, I need to move where there are multiple stores if mine never have anything, etc…. I have since stopped going to that site because who wants to deal with that!
If someone gets the inserts early, so be it. They obviously have a connection. At some point in life, we have all had a connection that we have been blessed with. Here some examples:
* your mom is a grocery store mgr and she saves the bananas boxes to give to you for moving
* a neighbor farmer giving the neighbors all his extra apples
* someone near a river who fishes daily and they don’t even eat fish so they share with their family and neighbor
* getting the day-olds from a local store instead of them putting them in the garbage
* a church member gives you an outstanding recommendation for a position at his firm and you land the job
You get the point…
My point is they are NOT “extra” until after the fact….and if it’s not right to take them from a recycle bin, how is it right to get them and more then one before the time they are supposed to? And if these inserts are to be accounted for, how can the connection legally or rightfully give them out? Maybe the paper knows they will print 90,000, but receive 100,000 inserts. They are supposed to destroy the other 10,000. But, they give them to friends how is that ethical couponing? I don’t see how one can say it’s not ok to take from the recycling bin or dumpster, but it’s ok to receive them even if they are supposed to be destroyed if they are “extra’s”
I could care less, if someone wants to dumpter dive or beg for inserts – go for it! I don’t for the mere fact it is time-consuming. I’ve “dumpster dove” one time and only got maybe 15 inserts all together (so like 5 sets) and took at least 30 min including time there and back. I should have just saved my time and bought 5 extra inserts. Dumpster diving in over-rated unless you have a dumspter of 100s of inserts in your area.
This past Snday I went to my local gas station to getmy newspapers and teh 40 that are usually ordered were own to 5 by 9 am. However teh 5 that wre left had NO inserts in them. This is a samll gas station and I don’t see how the people workng there don’t notice these people stealin gthe inserts out of the other papers. It is very upsetting.
At another local gas station the owner takes whatever inserts are left over and gives them to his wife the next day. So he returns the papers not sold with no inserts in them. Is this wrong for him to return them with no inserts if he bought them all in the first place?
Sorry I typed too fast with wet nails. My daughter is having fun painting them, lol…
I think it would be wrong, because I think he receives a credit or something from the papers that do not sell. So technically they aren’t really his. At least this is how it works for a friend of mine who owns a store that sells papers.
I work for a retail store…..This is how the paper distribution works with The Seattle Times. 20 news papers are dropped off at our door early Sunday morning, we are billed for NONE at this time. On Monday morning The Seattle times delivery driver picks up the unsold papers are charges my store for the papers sold. So if we are being technical, the store owner that takes the inserts to his wife out of the papers not sold, is actually stealing from The Seattle Times.
I see your point, but the delivery route drivers often allow the owners to keep the inserts as they will be destroyed anyways. If the owners are given the inserts from the newspaper company, they are not stealing.
The inserts that are in recycle bins/containers/dumpsters accounted for. If people do not use their inserts and recycle their entire Sunday paper, the manufacturers have already counted those inserts. I don’t see a problem with people taking inserts from local recycle bins.
If the newspaper is SHREDDING the ones that are not “purchased” then what is the problem?
I believe if you are at a point where you must go dumpster diving to get 300 boxes of pasta or 50 packages of diapers you need to watch the show hoarders and not extreme couponing. My family consist of two teenage boys (which multiplies by 6 when you add friends who I think live here) and myself and husband. I purchase 3 newspapers a week. I have more than enough coupons for the products to supply my family and donate to the local food bank. I just dont purchase them all at once.
If you are not using the products you are not saving anything. I think many people are forgetting that.
This is a great discussion and I enjoyed reading all the posts up to this point. I just wanted to say that when my wife and I watch the TLC show we shake our heads at people who are allowed to drag off cart loads and cart loads of product for no money by being allowed to use things like unlimited double coupons (or ringing many multiple transactions for a few doubles to get around the rules).
We think that stores just need to limit the amount of double transactions and limit the number of coupons per item to a reasonable amount. This would stop the ridiculous abuse you see on the extreme shows. Sorry, you cant buy 400 vitamin waters for free with your 50 cent coupon doubled to 0 while all the employees clap for you as you roll it out the door!
Everyone knows the reason for doubles is to get people to come in the store and shop, not to just give away all their profit.
Even with a limited amount of doubles, you can really get a a lot of great deals with the strategies people share, and make a serious dent in your costs!
I confess I haven’t read all the way through all the comments so forgive me if this has already been mentioned.
With regard to the concept of too many coupons being used (via dumpster diving) and that having an impact on the manufacturers and their ability to offer future coupons . . . What about the clipping services? Have they purchased all their newspapers? If I can buy a $1 coupon for 15 cents its now somehow okay? I kind of don’t get it. That has the same effect of mass distributing coupons to people who will use them and in fact I would think has an even greater impact than dumpster diving (are there as many people dumpster diving as there are coupons being sold by clipping services?). I don’t dumpster dive or use clipping services. I did want a B1G1 pedigree coupon but it was so hot it would sell out before I could get it. I admit I would have ordered that one.